IBIS Macromodel Task Group

Meeting date: 10 August 2010

Members (asterisk for those attending):
  Adge Hawes, IBM
* Ambrish Varma, Cadence Design Systems
  Anders Ekholm, Ericsson
* Arpad Muranyi, Mentor Graphics Corp.
  Barry Katz, SiSoft
* Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group
  Brad Brim, Sigrity
  Brad Griffin, Cadence Design Systems
  Chris Herrick, Ansoft
  Chris McGrath, Synopsys
  Danil Kirsanov, Ansoft
  David Banas, Xilinx
  Deepak Ramaswany, Ansoft
  Donald Telian, consultant
  Doug White, Cisco Systems
* Eckhard Lenski, Nokia-Siemens Networks
  Eckhard Miersch, Sigrity
  Essaid Bensoudane, ST Microelectronics
  Fangyi Rao, Agilent
  Ganesh Narayanaswamy, ST Micro
  Gang Kang, Sigrity
  Hemant Shah, Cadence Design Systems
  Ian Dodd, consultant
  Jerry Chuang, Xilinx
  Joe Abler, IBM
* John Angulo, Mentor Graphics
  John Shields, Mentor Graphics
* Ken Willis, Sigrity
  Kellee Crisafulli, Celsionix
  Kumar Keshavan, Sigrity
  Lance Wang, Cadence Design Systems
  Luis Boluna, Cisco Systems
* Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp.
* Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems
  Mike Steinberger, SiSoft
  Mustansir Fanaswalla, Xilinx
  Patrick O'Halloran, Tiburon Design Automation
  Paul Fernando, NCSU
  Pavani Jella, TI
* Radek Biernacki, Agilent (EESof)
* Randy Wolff, Micron Technology
  Ray Komow, Cadence Design Systems
  Richard Mellitz, Intel
  Richard Ward, Texas Instruments
  Samuel Mertens, Ansoft
  Sam Chitwood, Sigrity
  Sanjeev Gupta, Agilent
  Scott McMorrow, Teraspeed Consulting Group
  Shangli Wu, Cadence Design Systems
  Sid Singh, Extreme Networks
* Stephen Scearce, Cisco Systems
  Steve Kaufer, Mentor Graphics
  Steve Pytel, Ansoft
  Syed Huq, Cisco Systems
  Syed Sadeghi, ST Micro
  Ted Mido, Synopsys
  Terry Jernberg, Cadence Design Systems
  Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft
  Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov, Mentor Graphics
  Vikas Gupta, Xilinx
  Vuk Borich, Agilent
* Walter Katz, SiSoft
  Wenyi Jin, LSI Logic
  Zhen Mu, Mentor Graphics

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Opens:

- none

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Call for patent disclosure:

- none

-------------
Review of ARs:

- Ambrish send BIRD comments
  - Done

- Mike L add IBIS-ISS link to work archive
  - Done

- Michael M delete op amp from IBIS-ISS document
  - Discussed today

- Walter send a DOC format file for his flow BIRD
  - Done

- Arpad:  Write parameter passing syntax proposal (BIRD draft)
          for *-AMS models in IBIS that is consistent with the
          parameter passing syntax of the AMI models

- TBD:    Propose a parameter passing syntax for the SPICE
          - [External ...] also?
          - TBD

- Arpad:  Review the documentation (annotation) in the macro libraries.
          - Deferred until a demand arises or we have nothing else to do

-------------
New Discussion:

Arpad: Should IBIS-ISS be discussed in Wed interconnect meetings?
- Walter approves that
- Michael M: As long as it does not interfere with other agenda items
- Ken: Will IBIS-ISS be available from [External Model]?
  - That would make it a device issue
- Arpad: That would be good, but we have not discussed it
- Walter: We thought interconnect was simple
  - Active devices opens a Pandora's box of issues
  - That should be separate
- Arpad: It should not be used for buffer models
  - It has no controlled table sources
- Bob: It would take only a BIRD to make it an allowed language
- Walter: the controlled sources in ISS are limited, Laplace and pole-zero
- Arpad: What is the Wed agenda issue?
- Michael M: It would have to be taken up every other week
- Mike L: That is more than we have been discussing it
- We skipped discussion of IBIS-ISS here for today

AR: Michael M email ATM list to announce IBIS-ISS discussion in interconnect group

Walter showed the BIRD "IBIS-AMI Flow Correction"
- Walter, Ken and Ambrish agreed on BIRD text
- Anyone else may be added as requester
- Arpad: Is "dual model" explained?
- Ken: Yes
  - It says a dual model is OK but split is not
- Walter: Dual can use both Init and GetWave
- An explanation has been added for two problematic conditions
- Ambrish: A few more changes are needed
- Bob: The Use_Init_Output comment should be in the analysis section
- Arpad: We need to explain what is deleted
  - Is Use_Init_Output still allowed and ignored, or not allowed?
- Walter: It should be ignored
- Arpad: It should not be allowed for 5.1
- Walter: A 5.0 file changed to 5.1 still has to be legal
- Bob: We should defer this
  - No objection to Walter's proposal
- Radek: If it is a reserved parameter it must stay
- Walter: A graphical flow has been added, and a spreadsheet
  - Yellow highlight means it doesn't support statistical

Ambrish showed his version of the document:
- Changes to Step 3 and Step 5
- This was sent to the list
- Walter: What does the RX Init expect?
  - It should expect channel modified by Tx Init
- Ambrish: That is the only condition where there is an issue
  - It is described in the notes
- Walter: In this case TX Init does not modify the impulse response
  - The paragraph says this is problematic
- Walter: We should consider including graphics in IBIS 5.1
  - Then the spreadsheet can be included
- Ambrish: The general case and special cases are not explained in the same
  place
- Ken: Should we get rid the our change bars?
- Ambrish: That has been done in this version
- Arpad: We had a goal of deciding on the draft to submit
  - It looks like there is still quite a bit of discussion

Walter showed his document again:
- Walter: What is the input to RX Init?
  - TX Init output or hAC?
  - It should always be TX Init
  - This picture has existed for 2 years
  - The existence of RX GetWave should not change the rule
  - The BIRD sent this week should be submitted
- Ambrish: That would be OK
- Bob: We are mixing terminology like "getwave exists"
  - Also introducing new terminology
  - Also TX and RX note defined
- Walter: AMI_GetWave is a function name, GetWave_Exists is a parameter
- Arpad: We should also spell function and param names exactly
  - Why is Walter adding Init_Modifies_Impulse?
  - It should be Init_Returns_Impulse
- Walter made that correction
- Bob: Consistent terminology must be enforced

Walter: IBIS 5.1 really should be in a more clear format
- Arpad: Michael M should weigh in on that, but he has dropped off the call
- Walter: Can we submit to the open forum?
- Bob: It will be converted to plain text
- Walter: We lose the ability to track changes when we convert to text
- Mike L: We should be able to add the (DOC) file after the BIRD text link
- Ken: I can check the DOC file for spelling and consistency
- Arpad: Would we have to discuss it after?
- Bob: It could be sent to the group
- Walter sent the document to the group

AR: Ken edit the IBIS-AMI Flow Correction BIRD

Arpad: Please look at my IBIS-AMI Definitions BIRD on the web site

Next meeting: 17 August 2010 12:00pm PT

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IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:

1) Simulator directives